and now, the lord looked down upon us and has given us another chance. let's use it. that chance is unbelievable. exxon, the united states, everyone says by 2025, we're going to be energy self-sufficient in coal -- i mean, oil and natural gas. that will make america more competitive. it will reduce the geopolitical pressure. reduce the deficit. the experts tell me that you can -- that fracking can be just -- it's been done, by the way, i'm told, for 30 years. it can be done safely and rationally. some of the deep wells in the gulf, and it's certainly safer than sending hundreds of thousands of kids overseas to fight wars. so this could be -- it's safer than what? like that oil pipeline would have been safe in the alternative. we need to have rational policy and do what's right for america. it can be done cleanly. >> would you prefer a carbon tax? >> i would be for eventually over time have a rational increase in something like a carbon tax, yes. >> what would that look like? >> by the way, we may not need it anymore. i don't want to get into policy like that. it's far